JB- Now at that point how many times have you seen them perform? 'Cause I mean, a lot of your determination comes as the season goes on.

ZW- Well, yeah, and things do change. I mean, there were people that I would've picked as at least having the potential to win last year, and we try not to put anybody in front of the Canadian public that we don't think if they did absolutely everything that they could do, if they completely lived up to their potential, we try not to put anybody in front of the people to vote on that we do not think has a chance of winning. And certainly things change as it goes along, and I've said it lots of times on TV that, "Well, I didn't think you were a contender, but you just proved me wrong." And it's like hearing a Radiohead record the first time through. There are a lot of things in people's performances when there are subtleties and nuances and sophistications and tastes that require multiple listenings before you catch the flavour of it. People grow and people change, so I'm not foolishly consistent. If things are going to change, they're going to change, and at this point, I've seen them in the auditions, and lots of times during the audition you only see a snippet of it on TV. We may have had them sing five, six, seven songs in the room, right? Especially for somebody that we think is really good, we try to feel out the length and breadth of what they can do so we can get a real handle on them later on. Can they hit the big note? What is their actual range? How are they when they sing faster songs or slow songs? How are they with the guitar or without the guitar? We try to see all those things. So the initial audition, you may not see it all. It may have been very in-depth sort of research into how good they really are, then we see them solo on the day of the top 100 days, then we see them in a group situation, then we see them again solo. So we've seen quite a number of performances.

JB- Why give them five or seven attempts on the audition? You'd think it'd be that first song that they wow you right off the bat.

ZW- These are not attempts. We're still ultimately judging the gold ticket issue after one song. Sometimes it takes two songs, because people can sing a song with a very limited range in it, and you're, like, "That was pretty good. Now I got a feeling you don't have the ability to hit any real big notes, and it was kind of cool to hear you sing something super fast and you got a good vibe there. But ultimately if I put you in front of our audience and the kinds of things that I know they may potentially vote for, you didn't give us a chance to evaluate that in a first song." So there are people who take the gold ticket right out of their own hands by singing a second or third song. But when we go five, six, seven songs deep, it's a matter of either trying to . . . we don't get a chance to coach later on. Only the vocal coaches and whatever the people that work with them get a chance to further coach. So I may be actually taking that opportunity to give some really, what I think is, some valid input into what they may try to do and what kind of songs are good for them.

JB- Right. And basically, lose the twang Jaydee Bixby.

ZW- Well, you know, this whole twang dialogue goes on and on and on. I just spent a lot of time in Calgary and Edmonton lately and talked with a lot of country musicians. Everybody's got a different perspective on it.

JB- Are you developing one now?

ZW- Well, you know, all music, all singers are entitled to some artistic licence with regards to pronunciations of words and phrasing and how they and what they do with a word in order to make it sound more musical. If we wanted everything to be clipped and as though it was spoken, every band would sound like Cake, you know? [Sings by over-annunciating Cake's cover version of Gloria Gaynor's "I Will Survive"]: "At first I was afraid. I was petrified." We don't need that, and you are entitled to some artistic licence and it may be the reality of the Canadian country music industry that if you are trying to seamlessly fit in with everything else that's on the radio really selling that country music.

The reality is is that most of that music is from Nashville, and most of that music is sung by people who grew up in the southern United States or the mid-western United States and has some sort of a twang, and that the country radio programmers are so hardcore with regards to only playing Canadian things that fit in seamlessly with the American things, that you need to twang in order to fit in, or you feel you do. A lot of these kids, their ultimate goal is to break in the United States, 'cause that's where the big dough is, and they feel to compete in Nashville they have to put a twang on it.

Some people also think, just like in hip hop, just like in any number of other music art forms, that, . . . The Beatles are an example. They certainly didn't sing with a Liverpool-dian accent, right? That you feel like the art form unto itself inherently requires a twang to sound right just like the blues inherently needs a 1-5-7 chordal pattern in order to sound like the blues. They feel like…just like so many hip-hop artists feel like they have to sound like they're from Brooklyn in order to sound like rappers. People feel like in order to compete that this art form actually allows for that playing. It's not an affectation; it's more an homage to more what the actual art form is all about. I think that's bullshit, you know? That being said, I mispronounce words all over the place, you know? I do. Sometimes I can't help myself. It's just the way I feel about the song, or the word or it just feels more comfortable that way. On Idol it's about what other people are doing, not what I do. I mean, that's a fact, you know? I mean, I'm not there because I'm the greatest singer in the world. I'm there, because I got 20 years of business experience and I'm a good evaluator of other people's talents. If I was the greatest singer in the world, I wouldn't be on this show. I'd be selling millions of records, you know? So what I want to do with my own art is my own choice, and somebody wants to twang 'cause it's their own choice. I still have an opinion on it.

JB- Mmm. Hmm. We'll talk about your music right after this question: Were there any battles between the judges? Any fistfights, garbage can throwing?

ZW- Um, no, things were pretty good this year. I think more and more we have a methodology of how to vote and how to evaluate that doesn't show the necessity of getting personal. We also know each other's tastes pretty well and can, you know, I mean, there are certain things that there's just no point in arguing with Sass [Jordan] about. I know how she's going to vote, and there's just no changing her mind, and she's probably just the most intransigent person on the panel. So when she's got a hard and fast perspective on people, there's just no way to change her mind on it.

And with regards to everybody else, everything was pretty good. Jake [Gold] and I, especially in the top 100 shows when we go through those three, four days of sitting there all day, can get pretty testy with each other, because I have a tremendous need to coach and, especially during those days, I want to address a problem. I want to give a kid crap, and try to straighten him out at the time, because there's no chance later on. He has the tendency to feel that it's showboating, you know? And, so he gets testy with me, so on occasion I can be the brat and want to push it further and want to coach everybody that walks into the room. And he's much more desirous of just making decisions and letting kids roast by their own petard as opposed to actually sitting back and trying to help them in the situation. I don't feel the same way, but he thinks sometimes that I'm just doing it to hear the sound of my own voice, and who know? Maybe I am.

JB- There's nothing wrong with that.

ZW- You know, I like the sound of my own voice. I mean, I think that's the only reason that this show's on the air in the first place.

JB- It is all about you, hey? (laughing)

ZW- Well, when I'm doing the job I sometimes feel that way and sometimes I don't. but you know…

JB- It wouldn't be the same without you there.

ZW- Yeah, I have a great time doing this. I love feeling like I'm the fastest gun in the West, and just doing the thing. I have no disrespect for the other guys' opinions, but you know? And I am listening, and I don't like to be foolishly consistent. I'm willing to change my mind on all sorts of things, but I like advocating my position, you know? There's nothing wrong with stating it strongly, but there is something about being rude.